We are not talking here about a first-class organization, such as the Lakers or the Celtics. Firstly, one has to know that Nashville has an entire website dedicated to making a push for their own Major League Baseball team. For urgent COVID info, see r/floridacoronavirus. The team was relocated to Montgomery, AL before the 2004 season as the Montgomery Biscuits. Attendance is always low. Theres also the fact that the Rays would have nowhere to play until they move, which sours the idea of an immediate relocation. | Powered By: Web Seo Wiz. Reality star Honey Boo Boo inside speeding car involved in chase with deputies in Georgia, Winner of $754M Powerball jackpot identified as Boeing employee in Washington, SEE: Brightline reaches maximum speed for first time, Florida bill guts local governments power to protect tenants, Florida pastor accused of selling church for drug money. NHL Lightning & Panthers. Yeah, it should work.. Click here to download the free WFTV news and weather apps, click here to download the WFTV Now app for your smart TV and click here to stream Channel 9 Eyewitness News live. Clayton Kershaw beat the Tampa Bay Rays for the second time in six days and the LA Dodgers held on for a 4-2 win Sunday night and a 3-2 World Series lead . Ill be supportive of anything that Stu wants to do., Reinsdorf and Red Sox principal owner John Henry, another council member, declined Wednesday to share details on the Montreal decision. Because Charlotte is another example of a city that would be better off receiving an expansion franchise than an exported Rays franchise that would probably have to change its name to something more relevant. The move to Central Florida comes after the teams facilities in Port Charlotte were damaged by Hurricane Ian back in September. The Magic rank 20th out of 30 teams for home game attendance. Sie knnen Ihre Einstellungen jederzeit ndern, indem Sie auf unseren Websites und Apps auf den Link Datenschutz-Dashboard klicken. Your email address will not be published. Tampa Bay Devil Rays (1999-2003) Seattle Mariners (1998) Chicago Cubs (1993-1997) . The series selected was the May 15-17 series versus the Texas Rangers. Arab Book It should work, said Reinsdorf, who considered moving his team to St. Petersburg in the late 1980s and sat on the expansion committee that awarded the franchise in 1995. In 2007 the Rays played three regular-season games at the stadium, winning all three against the Texas Rangers. Also the location is poor for Tampa residents. Their attendance matches the teams talent level, and the Bucs have had great success, even before Tom Brady showed up in town. No more wholesale sports welfare. Much like the last two cities on this list, Nashville would be better off receiving an expansion franchise than sorting through recruiting the Rays. They have a stadium and entertainment area proposal, a section on the citys baseball history and their Negro League ties, and an entire group of investors. Writers and fans STILL dont have much to talk about right now regarding baseball, but in other news, MLB finally shot down the Tampa Bay Rays ridiculous plan to split their season between the Tampa area and Montreal. There has been discussion from some investors. MLB has tried to encourage o. And unfortunately, its not our first rodeo.. The ongoing saga of where the Tampa Bay Rays will be play baseball . With the Reams lease at the Trop ending in 2027, Williams pitched to the team in 2020 an entire proposal fleshed out for a Rays move, including a $1.2 billion dollar stadium, corporate sponsorships and possible support from Disney, and the numbers, that show how Orange County collects triple the tourist taxes of Pinellas and Hillsborough, where St. Petersburg and Tampa sit, respectively. More information about spring training games, including locations and ticketing details will be released in January. 2023 Cox Media Group. In addition, the citizens are already remotely familiar with the team. Retired Orlando Magic executive Pat Williams says Orlando is the natural future home for the Tampa Bay Rays. Rays to Orlando Gains Momentum. This is the ONLY place the Rays need to go. Walt Disney World cast members and Marine representatives helped spread some extra holiday magic to hundreds of families over the weekend. entertainment Columnist John Romano will send the latest Rays insights and analysis to keep you updated weekly during the season. Baltimore Orioles Baltimore Boston Red Sox Boston New York Yankees NY Yankees Tampa Bay Rays Tampa Bay Toronto Blue Jays Toronto. It would work out, believe me it will. 8 years ago. Either way, well get to see the Vipers go 2-10 and disappoint us all over again. The Tampa Bay Rays may not be able to afford staying in Florida much longer. I'm a big baseball fan, but let's be honest here - it's not a great spectator sport most of the time. Specifically, a relocated Tampa Bay Rays. MLS home games number 17 (outside of post season), MLB has 81. Bei der Nutzung unserer Websites und Apps verwenden wir, unsere Websites und Apps fr Sie bereitzustellen, Nutzer zu authentifizieren, Sicherheitsmanahmen anzuwenden und Spam und Missbrauch zu verhindern, und, Ihre Nutzung unserer Websites und Apps zu messen, personalisierte Werbung und Inhalte auf der Grundlage von Interessenprofilen anzuzeigen, die Effektivitt von personalisierten Anzeigen und Inhalten zu messen, sowie, unsere Produkte und Dienstleistungen zu entwickeln und zu verbessern. The Tampa Bay Rays had previously donned the Orlando Rays cap for a regular season game on June 17, 2016, in honour of those many lives lost during the Pulse Nightclub mass shooting.. Game-worn . The team, which has lived with an uncertain stadium future for years, released details and renderings of a proposed new home east of their current stadium, Tropicana Field. While this proposal to move the Rays to Ybor City is apparently dead, there is continued discussion of other stadium sites in either Pinellas or Hillsborough County. In the years before the advent of the Rays, the Tampa-St. Petersburg area was often suggested as a relocation site for many struggling major league baseball teams. This would obviously make the whole idea of moving the Vipers to Orlando pointless for 2021, but the concept could be explored if the XFL enjoys enough success to have a 2022 season. He contended that a drive east on Interstate 4 is more convenient for Hillsborough fans than a jaunt over the bridges unless you have a helicopter., We would not be taking away Tampas baseball team at all," he said. Whether or not the idea of moving a baseball club there is worth discussing remains to be seen. The Spurs were consistently in the top half of the NBA in attendance pre-pandemic, showing that San Antonio can gather fan interest, while Austin would be a fun experiment. Newest Tampa Bay Rays Stadium Rumored Location: Florida State Fairgrounds. Again, thank you for the constructive criticism. To rehash it theres no value for me rehashing it at this point. This very . Although he hasnt spoken to the Rays owner, Williams said he doesnt believe Sternberg wants to sell the team and thinks he would retain ownership if the franchise moved to Orlando. Bourse They operated both as an affiliate of other teams (1997 with the Chicago Cubs and 1998 with the Seattle Mariners) and as a Devil Rays affiliate (from 1999 to 2003). There would therefore be room for a ball team in this city located barely two hours by road from St-Petersburg. Danny - Nationals Lead Writer: @Nats_Baseball, Matt - Nationals Lead Writer: @HolleranMDH, 2021 Half Street High Heat A Nationals Podcast . Thats up to Stu, Reinsdorf said. Whether it takes days or weeks at this point, were fine with it, he said. Spring training workouts begin Feb. 6 for early arrivals, with pitchers and catchers reporting Feb. 14. Its a tiny little market. TAMPA, Fla. - The possibility of the Tampa Bay Rays moving out of St. Petersburg could be closer to reality. The stadium was built using taxpayer dollars and now they think they are going to get people who are too lazy to drive from Tampa or St Pete by building a new stadium at taxpayer expense. Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:28 pm. I greatly appreciate the feedback and constructive criticism. China Orlando, Williams says, is the logical full-time home for the Rays. The downsides of this proposal are apparent. Hes confident that his booming metro area will outpace Tampa Bay in population and clout within a dozen years. Stu Sternberg, the team's principal owner, said the decision was not prompting him to sell or move the team, but he did not rule out moving after the Rays' lease at Tropicana Field runs . Orange County collects about triple the tourist bed taxes each year than the combined totals of Pinellas and Hillsborough. . Wherever it goes, it would turn into a ghost town slum with unrealized/failed developments all around it. I would suggest Casita Taqueria for lunch (closed on Sundays). Nobody really knows what will happen with the Tampa Bay Rays in the short to medium term. Tampa wouldnt really be losing the Rays, Williams insisted. Corona Im glad people are interested and excited. A. . By all appearances, the Tampa Bay Rays are staying put. At that time, he was vague about whether the team would pursue an expansion franchise or an existing team. This scenario seems perfect for an in-state move. business . Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Move the Tampa Rays to Memphis. A year later, the Rays swept a three-game series against the Toronto Blue Jays, improving their record to 6-0 all-time at Walt Disney World Resort. The official subreddit about the City of Orlando and the surrounding communities of Central Florida. Your email address will not be published. As a matter of fact, there were some in, Charlotte that did not want to give the Knights a new stadium. Commentators and fans wondered how a franchise in Orlando was a viable option. TAMPA, Fla. (WFLA) Meoshi Mullins was given a notice in January that said on March 1, her rent will double. The Rays have the second worse attendance record in the game in 2019 with a team that is at the top of the American League East. Tampa Bay Rays dump Astros to move one . A summary report from the Tampa Sports Authority provided some details of a plan for a potential Ybor City stadium, but the Rays need to hear and see more, which at some point will include the cost breakdown. With the Reams lease at the Trop ending in 2027, Williams pitched to the team in 2020 an entire proposal fleshed out for a Rays move, including a $1.2 billion dollar stadium, corporate sponsorships and possible support from Disney, and the numbers, that show how Orange County collects triple the tourist taxes of Pinellas and Hillsborough, where St. Petersburg and Tampa sit, respectively. One of the most recent development in the future of the Tampa Bay Rays involves the city of Orlando. (Lord knows it seems more realistic than Rays owner Stuart Sternberg's insulting two-city . The Titans and Predators have no issues with attendance and are immensely popular in the region, while Nashville also had the, highest economic growth of any American city in 2021. . Want more of our free, weekly newslettersinyourinbox? I need as much of it as I can right now lol. International We feel that the Rays need not look to Montreal, need not look to a split season 41 here and 41 somewhere else, Williams told the Times this week. Tampa Bay retiree one of thousands stuck in federal . (Tampa is third.) Residents in the Tampa park at 4801 E. Hillsborough Avenue say they received the same notice, adding that their fixed incomes leave them with very few options.. READ: Tampa Electric, Duke Energy propose rate hikes for customers after impacts from two hurricanes in 2022. Period. Published Jan. 7, 2020 | Updated Jan. 7, 2020. Also, rumblings on Orlandos pitch to relocate #Raysa new flipping reliever, FanFest plans, TSA stadium report, a Pasco spring?, Gerald Williams, helping youth leagues, a prediction for 88 wins, morehttps://t.co/FqD1FSHRFU, Marc Topkin (@TBTimes_Rays) February 13, 2022. I get the sense theyre more like hissing cousins, Williams said. Were going to try our best, he said. Theres also a lot of ifs. When Orlando Magic co-founder Pat Williams announced his intentions of lure an MLB team to Orlando many reacted with skepticism. Follow our Tampa Bay Times sports team on Twitter and Facebook. The average young adult who moved to Tampa moved from an area about 267 miles away for their job, the Census Bureau reported. Why Rays Drew Rasmussen will slow down this spring, Rays Tyler Glasnow sustains oblique injury during practice, Bucs expected to release veteran tight end Cameron Brate, In Daniel Robertsons return to Rays, a clear mind is what matters, No details or plans to lure Rays, just Dreamers right now in Orlando, Orlando overtakes St. Petersburg as fourth most populated city, No O.J. 2 References. I think MLB view cities like Montreal, Portland, Nashville, Charlotte and possibly Mexico City as possible expansion cities. Rays co-presidents Matt Silverman and Brian Auld have met with Williams several times" since Rays owner Stu Sternberg announced his split-season concept between Tampa Bay and Montreal. Only a couple hours after Major League Baseball killed the Tampa Bay Rays' kooky, controversial plan to split their home schedule with the city of Montreal, my phone rang last week. Europe Orlando is a fantastic in-state option for the Rays, and it doesnt have the cumbersome cost of starting the fanbase over or getting out of a valuable TV deal across the state of Florida. Maybe the Rays will be able to convince the city to fund a new ballpark, but even that might be risky. Regardless of which city the Vipers play in, they would be smart to look into hiring Spurrier. All rights reserved). The Tampa Bay Times reported at the time that those included: Some owners only wanting the Rays to use the plan as leverage for negotiations for a new full-time stadium in the Tampa Bay market; hesitancy over the complexity of the plan on such topics as TV markets and territorial rights; concern that the Rays could benefit greatly financially if it worked, as well as the potential for it to fail and create issues in two markets with long-term leases; and questions over how a deal would be worked out with the players. A recent column on the XFL Newsroom posed a simple question: When the XFL returns, should the Tampa Bay Vipers stay in Tampa? Unlike Pinellas, which is largely built out, and with more room to grow than Hillsborough, the Orlando area is growing in all four directions," Williams said. Where are the Tampa Bay Rays moving to? world News, Hosted byByohostingMost Recommended Web Hosting for complains, abuse, advertising contact:o f f i c e @byohosting.com, Option to move Rays to Orlando must be raised, What bonuses are coming TODAY, 2023? Why? A retired Orlando Magic executive thinks its a perfect fit for Stu Sternberg to move his team east on Interstate 4. Are there any new MLB stadiums being built? Rays ownership still has a proposal for a $700 million stadium in Ybor City at their feet, and with the split-season proposal with Montreal shot down, the idea is gaining traction. Globe Life Field is home to the Texas Rangers and opened in the year 2020. it has a retro modern Construction complete with a retractable roof and artificial turf. technology Teams that cant draw or have stadium problems should get a 5 year out if these issues are not fixed. By using this website, you accept the terms of our Visitor Agreement and Privacy Policy, and understand your options regarding Ad Choices. The Spurs were consistently in the top half of the NBA in attendance pre-pandemic, showing that San Antonio can gather fan interest, while Austin would be a fun experiment. Keep up with the latest storylines, expert analysis, highlights, scores and more. Answer (1 of 2): The Rays have a perfectly nice Stadium in St Pete. In an interview with the Tampa Bay Times, Tampa mayor Jane Castor made clear that she hopes to see the Rays remain in the Tampa area. The Tampa Bay Rays have submitted a proposal to build a new domed ballpark near the site of the Major League Baseball (MLB) franchises current Tropicana Field home in St Petersburg, Florida. But, lets say the Rays come to town. You know what lies in life in Orlando that attracts millions of tourists annually? Charlotte is a fast growing city, and theres tons of potential in every way. There are corporate interests, fans to pounce on, and an area that wants baseball. Its been great to meet with them, Sternberg said. The biggest reason to move to Charlotte is because it is an untapped baseball market. Russia The Trop was built as a hockey arena, and even the Lightning found it wasnt as suitable for it, moving to the Amalie Arena in downtown Tampa. Video shows Florida alligator easily blasting through a metal fence, Despite zoning law, Tampa city council candidate Blake Casper is using his Bayshore homes as commercial sites. Are the Tampa Rays getting a new stadium? Orlando is a smaller city than Tampa, but it gains much more tourist revenue. But, lets say the Rays come to town. Manorama Online Then the political people rise up and we will hear from them, he said. ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. The Tampa Bay Rays are relocating their spring base for 2023 due to extensive damage to team training facilities caused by Hurricane Ian. (AP Photo/John Raoux, File), (John Raoux, Copyright 2020 The Associated Press. The Rays announced during a press conference on Friday that they officially intend to move the team from their current St. Petersburg location to Ybor City, a neighborhood in Tampa, and shed the . But its been nice to be around the senior baseball community here from all the other teams, theyve all been very complimentary. We want to be in the area, which is the most important thing. Not to mention a name change the Rays would have to do, to something like the Stars or Outlaws. There are already 2 teams in Texas that have been there for a. time (Astros since 1962, Rangers since 1971), and they have taken up the majority of the fan interest. Subscribe now to not miss a thing. Walt Disney World Resort said its looking forward to providing professional-grade facilities and world-famous hospitality to the players and coaches. Subscribe now to get the latest news delivered right to your inbox. Last summer, the Florida Legislature estimated . Rays were fearless on the bases in 2022. The Rays were left looking for training facilities after their regular spring training home Charlotte Sports Park was damaged by Hurricane Ian. The last meeting with Auld was just before Christmas, Williams told the Tampa Bay Times this week. The land hasnt been assembled and neither the city nor county have made any commitments to a team. It is what it is, Williams said. Despite increased interest expressed by Tampa Mayor Jane Castor in providing a . World Email me at mbianchi@orlandosentinel.com. Does St. Petersburg have a homeless problem? , and with the split-season proposal with Montreal shot down, the idea is gaining traction. Major League Baseball has refused to give ownership permission to explore their dual city plan, with the team playing half the season in the Tampa Bay area and the other half in Montreal. The Masters is keeping its criteria the same for next year. The cheapest way to get from Orlando to Tampa Bay costs only $26, and the quickest way takes just 4 hours. Its the fastest-growing metro area in Florida and fifth fastest in the nation. The Tampa Bay Rays Radio Network is a radio network in the southeastern United States that broadcasts baseball games and related programming for the Tampa Bay Rays of Major League Baseball.Additionally, there is a 2-station Spanish language network. ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex will provide our players and coaches with first-class facilities for their annual ramp up to the season.. The biggest reason to move to Charlotte is because it is an untapped baseball market. on We are thankful for Disneys willingness and ability to accommodate our unexpected spring training needs, Silverman said. I believe MLB put teams in the Florida region to see how they fare because they regularly had spring training like Arizona so they tested the market. However, as I just stated, this is geared towards getting a new team. Next time you're in town, though, I hope it's for the All-Star Game instead of the owners meetings. Press J to jump to the feed. . . 20 Tampa Bay restaurants every new resident needs to try to call themselves a local If you're gonna live in Tampa, you have to eat like a Tampeo. dedicated to making a push for their own Major League Baseball team. They would have a fan base and really wouldnt effect the St.Louis Cardinals. Kudos to MLB for juicing the balls to try and create more excitement, but it's still not as exciting as basketball or even hockey. ORLANDO Rays officials still haven't gotten any clarity from other major-league owners or top executives during their quarterly meetings about why the plan to split . The column cites poor attendance compared to the other XFL teams for the games played at Raymond James Stadium, explains how the XFL could capitalize on the markets created by the recently deceased Alliance of American Football (AAF), and gets into how the recent hype surrounding the Bucs could make the Vipers an afterthought to football fans in Tampa. So yes, these options are regional. Central Texas is one of the most populous areas in the United States, and there have been talks of them potentially hosting another sports team for some time. Obviously, the latter preaches for his parish, but he brings up some good points that are very defensible. If people can afford a family trip to Disney, they can spend a few extra bucks to see Mike Trout perform. Not terrible, but not good. Pitchers and catchers will report the following week on Feb. 14. one for each of the times a baseball flew into the Tropicana catwalks during the postseason over the years. Rays face Braves with Shane McClanahan on the mound today, Bucs expected to release veteran tight end Cameron Brate, Why Rays Drew Rasmussen will slow down this spring. When he is not at work you can catch him at one of Orlando's theme parks or the beach. Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 12:56 pm, Video shows Florida alligator easily blasting through a metal fence, Central Florida Fair is back in Orlando for a 111th year. I cant talk about what went on in the executive council meeting.. People want us in the area, which is the most important thing. Tampa Bay Rays moving spring training camp to ESPN Wide World of Sports for 2023 By Matt Reeser, WFTV.com December 20, 2022 at 12:05 pm EST By Matt Reeser, WFTV.com December 20, 2022 at 12:05 pm EST We are thrilled to be bringing Major League Baseball back to Walt Disney World Resort, said Faron Kelley, vice president of Disney Sports. Learn about careers at Cox Media Group. However, as I just stated, this is geared towards getting a new team. Its definitely still a possibility and a good idea at that. They have a stadium and entertainment area proposal, a section on the citys baseball history and their Negro League ties, and an entire group of investors. Either way, we'll get to see the Vipers go 2-10 and disappoint . Nobody really knows what will happen with the Tampa Bay Rays in the short to medium term. And we have both Mayor Castor and her administration, and new Mayor Welch and his administration and the county people, who have been nothing but supportive and eager to engage with us.. Florida is truly a football state, both professional and amateur. Tampa Mayor Jane Castor, who recently said shes open to the idea of splitting a season with Montreal, declined comment through a spokeswoman. Hit me up on Twitter @BianchiWrites and listen to . How Much Is Breast Augmentation In Tampa. While she . United States Writers and fans STILL dont have much to talk about right now regarding baseball, but in other news, MLB finally shot down. Learn how your comment data is processed. Thats a big change from November when Williams first unveiled the Orlando Dreamers proposal. health Rent prices in Orlando are on the decline, and Zillow experts say that's because people can't afford the bill. | New Bond March 2023 | Breastfeeding bonus | homes of the homeland 2023 | Venezuela, Thanks in particular to a gem from Foden, City mates Newcastle and puts pressure on Arsenal. An Orlando baseball team does seem a bit unrealistic though, until you realize, maybe an Orlando baseball team is not an expansion team but rather a relocation. Were looking forward to engaging.. Please considermaking a one time or monthly donationto help support our staff. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. This is their perfect new home.. politics A summary report from the Tampa Sports Authority, Sign up for the Rays Report weekly newsletter, Former Devil Ray Gerald Williams dies of cancer. Pinellas eyes youth sports complex with big question: Where would it fit? The Trop was built as a hockey arena, and even the Lightning found it wasnt as suitable for it, moving to the Amalie Arena in downtown Tampa. "He can certainly toss his hat in the ring with all the other communities, and all the power to him. Well send you a handful of interesting Orlando stories every morning. Mike Bianchi, columnist at the Orlando Sentinel, came up with an unusual suggestion. By James Hicks | January 12, 2022 at 4:22pm CDT. As a matter of fact, there were some in Charlotte that did not want to give the Knights a new stadium out of the belief they could bring an MLB team to the stadium instead. A city that has history rooting for other teams would find it more appealing to take the time to build a stadium for an original team and to start new than bring in a franchise that already has 20+ years of history in another state. As the Rays' 2022 season began, the team's expiring 2027 lease at Tropicana Field crept closer. Relocate to Montreal or Nashville where they can draw fans, same can said for the Marlins, COVID-19 City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Florida > Orlando: Tampa Bay Rays move to Orlando? Lets be real. The downsides of this proposal are apparent. There has been discussion from some investors, most notably MLB legend Nolan Ryan and his son Reid, who have both given consideration to pitching the owners on an expansion or relocation to Central Texas. The Rays easy solution to fixing their money and attendance problems is to simply move north to Tampa. With CBA negotiations becoming even more tense, it now looks like the MLB season will not start on time, with Spring Training at the bare minimum being pushed back. The Rays have trained since 2009 in Port Charlotte, Florida, about 90 minutes south of St. Wenn Sie Ihre Auswahl anpassen mchten, klicken Sie auf Datenschutzeinstellungen verwalten. They have a temporary stadium that could possibly be upgraded. A new . . Orlando does have some clear advantages. The team's owner met with Tampa 's mayor to discuss the possible change in address. Walt Disney World on Tuesday announced it has come to an agreement with the Tampa Bay Rays to host the . But in the six weeks since unveiling the drive to get a team at an Orlando sports pub, Williams says, 11,302 people as of Monday have signed up to be potential season ticket holders. Where do visiting teams stay when playing the Rays? Disney is no stranger to hosting professional baseball. Why is Tampa Bay no longer the Devil Rays? But Lake Nona and Hunters Creek make the 417 a challenge during evening commutes, the same time as most weekday home games. Jan. 20, 2022 - Montreal sister city stadium is a no-go. Sternberg said recent talks with Tampa Mayor Jane Castor, new St. Petersburg Mayor Ken Welch and other area officials have gone well. Ditto for those of hockey, besides since the Lightning dominates the league. The Rays have trained since 2009 in Port Charlotte, Florida, about 90 minutes south of St. That is true about the Hispanic population in Miami, but I feel like that organization has pissed off so many fans in Miami. Not to mention that the, Triple-A Charlotte Knights get pretty good attendance, , at least when COVID isnt affecting their numbers. Were always looking for top tier events, like the Rays spring training for our guests to enjoy at ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex.. Students may not be here for summer, but Spring and Fall they will be, and Orlando is easily accessible for students that go home for break. A move east likely wouldnt nullify a reportedly lucrative new television contract that the Rays just inked, since the Rays currently broadcast statewide. As of April 1, 2020, the Orlando metro area ranked third in Florida demographically. There are corporate interests, fans to pounce on, and an area that wants baseball. Answer (1 of 14): I wish the Rays would stay in Tampa and build a new stadium around Ybor City. This deal is, of course, moot as a stadium deal has fallen apart (for now). New rules could make them more aggressive. Orlando has expressed interest in stealing the Rays from Tampa Bay, so losing the Vipers to the Mouses city would be a bad sign.