No worries. Rowan Mangan: And Im like, Thats because youre half Zeus. And that gets applied to womens lives much more broadly because if were all running ourselves ragged, at a certain point, were not good to anyone. The spider loves the fly, but only in a consumptive sense. Rowan Mangan: 2. Ratings and reviews are like gold in the podcasting universethey help people find us, they help build this beautiful community, and most of all, they help us in our quest to Bewilder the world. Rowan Mangan: 2, Kal Penn | Getting Warmer with Kal Penn, Episode 403: Everything about this is wrong, The Fox News Defamation Lawsuit: Money, Ideology, Truth, LiesIts All Right There, How To Tell Engaging Stories With Your Social Media Content. So breaking a cultural rule is not bad. Rowan Mangan: Rowan Mangan: And I mean, Im putting that strongly. So its not just a dynamic that plays out in parent-child relationships. We laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone. And so how does that function? Its crazy. I feel so much better now. Isnt it interesting that it is Ive thought about this before that theres such a strong similarity between like the whole gay thing and then this is that its all people want to talk about is the sex. You can unhook from codependency to create healthy relationships in alignment with your true nature, and Martha and Ro talk about how to do that in this insightful episode. And sometimes she does feel like I need some more time. You can. So the funny thing is that I start out, its a bit embarrassing the way I start out in this story, because I came in as a kind of Martha Beck groupie. But codependency can make you feel exhausted, burnt out, and resentful toward those youve been helping, especially when they feel entitled to your over-giving. To help her serve others. Shes exploding like a doormat. Like youre on display to answer peoples curiosity questions? In a sort of pop psychology sort of way. She also, when things are awkward, just runs away. But Ive been doing self-help thing, my whole career. And Abby was wondering if, tell them what you were saying this morning. How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Its the truth. Because parts of it make me laugh so hard, but Martha, you were married to a dude long time ago. If anybody solves all the problems humans created, it will be humans. Youre a little fly. And she said, I just dont know how I feel about the fact that you are both just assuming that Im codependent. And thats when Marty and I looked at each other, Thats a compliment were paying you, thinking youre codependent. And thats when we realized that the culture is inside us. We have a little home gym, and she follows me in there. And when you find something that you dont want to do and you dont have to do, dont do it. The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. She has become enmeshed in her own metaphorical web about a metaphorical web. Yeah. And wed sit down with our coffee in front of the fire. Martha Beck: So I started reading all these books on polyamory, which by the way, I still have cultural conditioning because if Im out to dinner reading, I like hide the book. So I was all like misty-eyed and excited. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. Yeah. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and . Martha Beck: About Martha:Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. Martha Beck: Its like, its a family, its a family. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster and mom to a vivacious toddler. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. It basically means putting such a high level of attention on someone elses needs and well-being that you actually forget about yourself and what you need. Bucephalus, the god of codependency. Rowan Mangan: Thank you. Rowan Mangan: It makes you think more and it makes you change more. And thats why you were being codependent when you refused to give me a direct answer. Were going to go down and Row and I just crafted it, right. Life is freaking hard. Its not good for anybody. And now theyve done a re-publication of Codependent No More and guess who they sent it to for a blurb? Right. You know that its one of your jobs to buff my pedestal. You just never tell me anything. martha beck two wives. I would argue that there is a net that the fly gets caught in, initially. Well, and they feel the undeniability of it, thats what happened with us. I had this bizarre reaction where I felt like I had been hit by a train full of joy, just wham, so much happiness. And if youre listening to this and you think, Im trying to figure something out. 2015-2023. We said, What happened? And you said, I cant explain it with language. This isnt what you want to do. And you are not in the equation. So Marty, this is a Be Wild Files episode today because we have been hearing from our beloved listeners. Keep these comming, 2023 Podvine, LTD. All rights reserved. And you said Martha, because didnt you say this about Karen too. Martha Nibley Beck (born November 29, 1962) is an American author, life coach, and speaker who specializes in helping individuals and groups achieve greater levels of personal and professional success. Podcast with her wife Martha Beck, she also runs the Wild Adventures newsletter and community on Substack. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with . But what I start doing is being really pathetic and apologizing for not doing everything and waiting for you guys to go, Well, we dont really expect you to do all those things. And then I go, Really? And you say, Yeah, its okay. And I say, Okay, sorry for being passive aggressive., Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan is in Paris, but her hotel got bedbugs and she hasnt slept for six days. I honestly, I said, this whole thing is spirit. I want to know them please. I decided what every woman needs is a wife, but now Im thinking what every woman needs is two wives. Ooh. And then the people down lower in the power structure expect to be treated badly, expect to have to do things for others with no particular reward. That night, Oprah and Martha sat down. I dont have the logistical competency, but go, go ask questions. As you said earlier, to return home today to who they are. It was so exciting. Rowan Mangan: Ive said previously that we believe that the sperm donor for Rows IVF procedure was Zeus. And apparently they invented these to make people feel worse, which is, I dont know, sorry for all our Russian friends out there. We are obsessed with fighting because we just, I dont know. Questions? And to me, rediscovering the feeling of a village around the fire, we have a little village in our house and we could not do with one person less, it would just be so much sadder. But can we just pause and repeat what Rowan said? And they were not a happy people. Finding the Path to Your True Self was an instant New York Times bestseller, obviously. Would you say thats it? To help her serve others more. Rowan Mangan: And I really think that we are so fixated on TV because we evolved to do that and TV is a flickering light that tells stories. Im Glennon Doyle, author of Untamed, the book that was released at the very start of the pandemic and became a lifeline for millions. I mean, after a few years, its always, What about me? Exactly. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Tell me both of you, we do this thing called the next right thing where we just tell people one little thing they can do, which lets just tell people one little thing they can do to do a homecoming. One of my kids once said to me, Gosh, Mom, it must be great to make a living extending metaphors. And I was like, It is. Thats why were here. Yeah? And just go, That was wonderful. Anyway. IG: @rowan_mangan How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. And its so nice that Bev asked about that because my whole brain is all sort of turned that direction as I read through this beautiful, wonderful book. This is a common problem. And what you feel is the love of the village and that I mean, its just having a larger group taps into this primordial thing. Its someone sitting there going, Oh no, you do that actually, Row. Or, No, that is exactly what you said 10 minutes ago, Martha, you did say that.. I call this way of living " Wild Inventures ." Well, and I think thats why Karen is so relaxed about being counter cultural because she knew for a fact that her parents would love her no matter what. I think when you are a weirdo against your will it does help you develop compassion and imagination and everything. And then you just kind of encounter someone who is already a spider. And we were like its sort of like a family. Youre not happy with me? About Rowan: Good Lord, I heard so many stories, not just in Mormonism, of couples going to a family therapist and saying, Hes fine, but shes exhausted. I think thats another good one. And she can hurt us all physically. Wouldnt it be nice to have that kind of, I mean, they get really nasty. Because if you put all attention off yourself and on at other people, the natural response, going from culture to nature, is it feels wrong. I dont think their brains are capable at this point in being able to comprehend how they affect others. We were living in California and we would get up in the morning every day one winter. I hate to even say that out loud. My psychology. That is probably easier for most of us to relate to. Yeah. So this is someone who actually knows whats going on. When I came out to my mom, my moms first question to me was, Well, do you have one of those strappy things?. Row is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland, which I didnt know and Im very excited for you Rowan. And Row looked at me like, Why did you have to bring that up? Okay. No problem. What theyre going through is very interesting to me and that openness, its made me much softer and more gentle and its really helped me be a better person, for sure. They are the coolest people. Oh, but isnt that a beautiful way. How could she not have? Her newest book, The Way of Integrity, I love this book. I mean, we have friends who have come to us and said, listen, just like along the way, I realized that my identity is queer. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life. 3. I think it is. Its non judgment. You managed to not only lift it, but make it make you fly. And now Im afraid she has like a gym phobia and will never work out again. Row will kind of go, Okay professor, can you stop talking for 10 seconds.. It would be like a two legged stool, that just does not work. I think at the moment, its probably parenting stuff. And Ive felt what thats like, when I think I know how to do something and someone comes to help and Im just like, I need the help, but youre doing it wrong. You have to let the other bears do it the way the bears do it. 3. And I just absorbed them when I was in my early 30s. And that is so different from what happened for us. Or if theyre in that place, is it just probably better to move on? Theres some ego work. The gates are open, whatever happens and thats the fun of it is you never know what adventure life is going to bring you when you say, I will live on this thread of truth that I feel is myself. Its like youre pulling this thread towards you. Theyre pretty cool. Each story takes on something essential about California -- its progressiveness, its reputation as a home for dreamers and schemers, its heartbreaking inequality, its varied and diverse communities, its unique combination of dense cities and wild places -- and each season breaks it down into multiple 20-40 minute episodes that will be released sequentially. I'm Ro: a writer, a podcaster, a mom, a food enthusiast. Like to me, conflict feels very chaotic and scary. We didnt really have a lot of language about it or knowledge of how that other people did this and how they might do it. When she was five months old, she could still drag Adam around the house, helpless in her grip. Can you talk to us about fight? I mean, youve had plenty of experiences this way. Thats interesting. When you look at traditional gender roles. That, but also then with a little murder afterwards. 2023 Audacy, Inc. All rights reserved. Sign up below to receive information about the upcoming Wayfinder Master Coach Training. So we all gather for wine time and thats an hour. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life. Then we have dinner together. And I got much more codependent during the times when my older children were tiny and had to sort of pull myself out of it and learn, well, Ill never forget, speaking of the way nature does things. If you can do it for yourself, Im not going to do it for you. Because that is natures way. Rowan Mangan: Martha Beck: Martha Beck: Martha Beck is silly and insightful, and listening to her and Rowan Mangan giggle while talking about how to get back to our true nature is delightful. Like what are some things that have been hurtful to you? So when we were first together, we were on this ranch and one things about being out in nature is its very silent and theres not a lot of hubbub and its hard to hide whats going on in a house. People judge us for this too, because hes 30 something. We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 studios. Right. Thank you. I have a method. With reference to codependency. And now they are 35, 34, 36. Im Martha Beck, here with Rowan Mangan. Yeah, bashing down pillars. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: I do think also that if youve had to take care of someone or something, like a pet or a baby, and the most of the people doing care for very young babies are women, you get into that mindset of trying to be almost psychic about understanding other people what they need. Martha Beck: And we love him. Martha Beck: Plus Karens a morning lark and were both night owls, so we got the whole shift covered. It is evolutionarily essential. How does the sex work is always thats the bad one. And he was reading it out loud as we walked in with our family speech memorized. Come up with it now., Rowan Mangan: If you can never get enough true crime Congratulations, youve found your people. Its an identity and a circumstance that can happen when Karen comes home and says, Im in love with Rowan.. And its pervasive. And then wed just discuss our codependency, which didnt seem odd at all at the time. And a review would be also be wonderful. Thats what I live for. Weve had people say to us, oh yeah, I know a throuple and boy do they have rules. Its very spiritual. I made you six different kinds of blue cheese and you dont like any of them? Dynamic set of behaviors. Hello. 2. 3. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. In this episode, Marty and I dissect the ways we can be shamed and how we can move away from that into what feels true for ourselves. Martha Beck: And I never know, like it could go anywhere. Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. And Im thinking, shes not reacting like a typical person, like shes taking this incredibly well. So then we came and we did IVF. And Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Yeah. And that becomes, do you have one of those strappy things, right. About The Show And then whenever this spider wants a snack, it can go down, inject its mouth parts into the living fly and suck out some life essence. So has the psychology of entitlement, addiction, whatever, theres that whole, its the opposite of codependency. And I get to control it. And so weirdly they were losing part of their own ego investment when somebody else took part of the job. The way being gay was considered super weird when I was growing up in Provo, Utah, but we had this speech we made up. Out of that, got together with Karen, my first ever female/female relationship, and everything was good to go until we died, until something happened. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Unlike getting a shirt, that ones staying. Martha has claimed a lot of things, but she has proven none of them. Martha Beck: Im going to spend a ton of money to go on Martha Becks-. Love the podcast, good episode and clear audio! And I said, have you asked any of my other siblings about the actual acts of sex? And she said, No. And I said, Do you want to start now? So it was my beautiful way of not having to answer that question specifically. Its a wonderful time in the Bewildered universe. Anyway. Row co-hosts to Bewildered podcast, which all of you must listen to. And then she would tiptoe out and come into the bedroom after her mother was asleep. Come on, out with it. And thats what we were playing out, to my friend, we were like, Well, we were just complimenting you by assuming you were codependent.. You might not know this, but ratings and reviews are like gold in the podcasting universe. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); I so love listening to you two, you always brighten my day! Yes. And its always a fear of scarcity. I think its a natural way theyve survived being in an orphanage etc. So either one, maybe one could be the subtitle, but. Okay, so you were feeling it was weird, but you were telling yourself it wasnt weird. Yeah. And it will pull you into such adventures. Happenings? So it would help us enormously if you would consider going over to your favorite podcasting app, especially if its Apple, and giving us a few stars, maybe even five, maybe even six if you can find a way to hack the system. So we were talking about this morning. Right? Martha Beck: Martha Beck: She said, Im having very unusual feelings about Row. I was like, really? Like jealousy does come up, but its not like just because jealousy might be there that its a deal breaker for a relationship. Martha Beck: What did I do? Morbid is a true crime, creepy history and all things spooky podcast hosted by an autopsy technician and a hairstylist. The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. And Ill never forget. Its rubbed off on us. This time the question comes from Ohio listener Bev, who hopes to learn more about codependencywhat it means and how it applies to her life as a mother and caregiver. Thank you for trusting us and sharing this hour with us, for the rest of you this week when things get hard, dont forget we can do hard things and make your list and cross off whatever you dont want to do or have to do and return home to yourself. And the reason we thought this was such a great question was because in our culture, for many of us, it is seen as laudable to have this disordered behavior. Yeah. Please note: This is an unedited transcript, provided as a courtesy, and reflects the actual conversation as closely as possible. Eavesdrop on life as it's lived. So to say this, I just, we need to set up a few things around age. Can you email me that so I can tell the kids thats what Im doing when Im watching The Real Housewives of wherever. Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. For You At this crazy moment in history a lot of people are feelings bewildered, but that actually may be a sign were on track. Martha Beck: One can never tell one, when confronted with a question like that, unprepared. We sat down. Tell me how that happened. The next few days or weeks, it was like literally trying to fight gravity. But its like, is this optional? So we would do this thing. Well, Im not big enough or good enough or whatever it is. The trigger for me in this is that I have two spiders in my house my adopted teenagers. A huge part of it. So for us, we didnt even really know anything about it. And so if someone was going to get jealous at this point, it would be Karen because shes doing different sorts of things with her day. New episodes on Mondays for free. devona strange can the occipital lobe repair itself gaf timberline shingles recall general motors cost leadership strategy oldham police station number Thats a really ancient spiritual practice from all over the globe. I just think thats so freaking cool that you had the courage to do that. To other throuples or other polyamory couples really. Martha Beck: I'm currently redrafting a novel about Ireland, magic and the dangers of charm, which is due to be completed in late 2018.